Attempting to understand Toby Rogers' 'released bioweapon' hypothesis | UPDATE: Previous attempt to understand Rogers' view on the NYC Event

Updated 10 August 2025 with an exchange from May 2024

Replying to

Toby Rogers

’ article How Big Pharma hijacked Evidence-Based Medicine, Part I, I said:

I'm sincerely not understanding how you can see EBM [evidenced-based medicine] so clearly and yet hold to a "released bioweapon" view on SARS-CoV-2.

Below is my reaction to relevant portions of a speech you made at Brownstone in 2023, which BI republished not long ago. Has your view changed since then?

Would truly love to know.

Theory about why the 'released bioweapon/poison' view doesn't actively question or confront the New York City mass casualty event

Toby Rogers replied:

Yeah I think you 'no virus, no pandemic' people are nuts. I read your stuff and it never lands. I think you're participating in a psyop created by the biowarfare industrial complex that ensnares a certain type of well-intentioned person.

And you're doing massive damage to the movement to stop the iatrogenocide. I'm happy to fight the bad guys. It's infuriating to also have to fight supposed allies.

Hockett to Rogers:

Thanks for the response.

I believe we can engage in serious conversations about these and other topics without resorting to ad hominem or vague accusations about harming an ill-defined movement. Related thoughts here:

On dividing a resistance, the existence of viruses, 'the COVID response', & spreading-non-deadly threats

Glad to know you’ve read some of my work. That means you're aware I do NOT identify as “No Virus” and have recently argued that certain rhetorical and strategic moves by some (not all) in a segment of that camp function as PSYOP/MISO—or are at least useful to such operations:

Views on the things called viruses (including SARS-CoV-2)

Is "No Viruses!" a psy-op?

You’re right that I take a “No Pandemic” position.

There was no pandemic by any WHO definition

Since you also take your work seriously, I’d like to invite you to respond to a recent critique that Jonathan Engler, Martin Neil, and I wrote of the Lab Leak/Origin hypothesis:

Response to Matt Ridley and Lab Origin proponents: This covid narrative collapses under the slightest scrutiny.

While it addresses Matt Ridley and Anton van der Merwe’s paper specifically, our questions apply broadly to anyone who maintains that there was a suddenly-spreading or released virus, bioweapon, or similar agent.

Appreciate your consideration.

NOTE: I mistakenly left out "NOT" in the initial reply. Apologies!

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I don’t know Toby Rogers and, to my knowledge, have only interacted with him once — in the comments section of his Substack, sometime in late 2023 or in 2024, regarding the New York City mass casualty event of spring 2020.

Any additional dialogue will be posted here.

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UPDATE (10 August 2025): Conversation from 2 May 2024

I was able to locate my previous exchange with Toby Rogers. It was on 2 May 2024, in comments on his article “Thinking Points, May 2, 2024”.

In response to another commenter, Rogers said:

In 2020, the powers that be killed heaps of people, particularly in New York, with murderous hospital protocols. They also denied standard treatments for pneumonia and flu and that increased the death toll further. You can get to seven million deaths from iatrogenic harm alone if you wish. I think it was some combination of a new and novel flu, blocked access to treatments, deaths of despair, and iatrogenic murder.

I replied,

Hi. To my knowledge, I've gathered more data on and studied the NYC event more than any average citizen. Respectfully, it doesn't seem like you're familiar with the scale, magnitude, and speed of the official all-cause death curve in New York City.

1) Are you aware that there is no proof that the event occurred in real-time, as presented by official data? No pubic death certificates (or way to obtain them via FOI), no list of names of the 27K "extra" people who are alleged to have died in 2.5 months, no medical examiner's achieve of deaths, etc. It's the biggest non-war mass-casualty event in U.S. history, as far as I can tell. The equivalent of ten World Trade Center Disasters in terms of additional casualties/bodies to handle. I hope we can agree the federal government should not be allowed to claim that such an event occurred without having to substantiate it with basic proof. (related thread: https://x.com/Wood_House76/status/1782928084271821202)

2) To what are you referring when you say "murderous protocols" in hospitals? Of the 15K+ excess, what portion are you saying is due to those protocols? (Place of Deaths data from CDC WONDER here, for your reference)

3) Regarding denial of "standard treatments for pneumonia and flu", can you point to data supporting that claim? By how much did it increase the death toll, in your opinion?

4) I don't disagree that iatrogenic deaths occurred. What portion of the NYC toll do you think was iatrogenic?

5) You said "a new and novel flu." Are you using "flu" colloquially, or are you saying SARS-CoV-2 isn't a coronavirus?

6) Re: "deaths of despair," what kinds of death falls into that category? What portion of the NYC death toll are you saying was "deaths of despair"?

Thanks so much.

P.S. You may be interested in my recent response to Harvey Risch's view on the NYC spring 2020 event. https://www.woodhouse76.com/p/harvey-risch-on-the-question-of-what

Rogers replied:

What are you doing? Make your case. "I don't disagree that iatrogenic deaths occurred." Cool. Explain what happened then.

Hockett:

What you're doing --seemingly -- is pretending you don't know what I am saying.

I am asserting that the NYC all-cause death curve is fraudulent and has not been substantiated with basic proof. What I mean by fraudulent is explained here: https://www.woodhouse76.com/p/the-f-word

The "best" we have is FEMA COVID-19 Funeral assistance data showing that ~7,500 deaths are associated with a disbursement of funds (which means a death certificate was submitted as reviewed as being genuine) and the Hart Island murals burials showing the names, etc around 1,500 deaths of people in those weeks.

My current estimate for how much of the ~38K eleven-week total is verifiable is ~22K, which is ~11K above normal and 16K short of the federal government's claim.

Regarding what happened to those people: iatrogenic policies and neglect in nursing homes, mass transfer of facility residents INTO hospitals as part of staging sudden spread, direct & indirect euthanasia involving patients who were already in hospitals before the emergency was declared (e.g., sinking the damaged ships https://www.woodhouse76.com/p/the-allegory-of-the-damaged-ship). The Home death toll may involve an undisclosed factor, but extant evidence points to deadly orders given to EMTs. Unfortunately, it appears the federal government used NYC for a simulation event involving precipice populations and others.

Determining what occurred and why starts with releasing every death certificate immediately -- under court order, if necessary.

You can find recent presentations and interviews on my Substack if you're interested, but continuing the conversation here isn't really my goal.

I've demonstrated what I came to demonstrate: That you (and many other influential individuals) are saying things about an event but haven't thought it through or simply don't know. Neither one of those things is a crime, of course, but when someone like Allen presses you about the NYC event, you might be better off saying, "Yikes, I don't know what happened there! The data are crazy and I've always thought/heard x, y, z, but those reasons might not be the truth. We need a transparent investigation and full disclosure ASAP, because the specter of a spreading deadly pathogen in New York was used to scare everyone, close businesses, hurt kids, and destroy lives."

Take care.

Rogers:

You are saying two contradictory things.

1. There was no increase in death in NY and

2. There was mass murderer on a large scale.

And then when people are like, what? you accuse them of bad faith.

Hockett:

Nope. I didn't say there was no increase. Did you read the numbers I just gave you for the timeframe?

I said the total 11-week excess death event is unsubstantiated with proof, but circumstantially corroborated by FEMA funeral assistance data and Hart Island for the 11-week period.

I put the estimate at 22K, which IS above normal by 100% or so.

Mass murder on a large scale doesn't take 27K extra dead people.

Or 15K+ extra dead people in hospitals

It can be mass murder with far less.

That said, I did not say - and have never said "murder" regarding this event. I also don't say "murder protocols."

I say Democide via euthanasia & other iatrogenic policies, plus all-cause death data fraud.

Your faith may be good, bad, or a mix.

It's your claims that need work.

END

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