John Ioannidis: 'Time to Start Opening Up, with Science, not Partisan Politics' (23 April 2020, Journeyman Pictures)

Video and transcript

Nov 22, 2024

Posted without comment for later reference

Host: This is the headline for me. Your study - and I know you need to replicate this. I know it needs to be peer-reviewed. I know it's early days. But your study has essentially shown that this thing is as, the case fatality rate is the same as seasonal flu. So, shouldn't the major recommendation now be to open up as soon as possible? Maybe keep sheltering the vulnerable, but should not, should we not be shouting from the rooftops that it is time to open up?

John Ioannidis: I think that it is time to open up in many locations and the time is coming for others. I think that if we are careful in collecting information on how the epidemic is evolving, to make sure and to offer confidence and self-confidence to all people in our community that we haven't lost control of the epidemic. Because many people will still be very fearful. They will say, “I don't want to go out. I don't want to do anything. People are still dying.”

If we do that - if we offer science, if we offer reliable data, if we offer reassurance that this thing is not going to kill you, it doesn't seem to have a higher chance of killing you than, you know, seasonal flu for each person who is infected. Although we know that there are some people who have a much higher risk and these, of course, we need to protect – very, very carefully, I think. If we put that agenda in place, we could open up. And I think it needs to be gradual. It needs to be reinvigorating confidence in the population that the right thing is being done, and it is to the benefit of our society and our citizens and all people. And then I think we will do well. We will have to watch it very closely. But if, if we don't do that, I don't really see an alternative.

Host: You said in your previous interview you're just a simple scientist. I – which “I'm not political.” And I just I want to get you to reiterate this in some way. Is there - because we see that the battle over opening up, or can remaining in place seems to be falling along partisan lines, not just in the United States, but all over the world, as if there is, you know, almost a battle, either between left and right or between the bureaucracy at the CDC and the President or what have you. Is -- are you above this fray? Are you, are you a Trump supporter, an anti-Trump supporter? Do you - is - are you politically motivated in some way? Do you prefer the economics of the world over the lives of people, anything like that?

Ioannidis: I have to reiterate that I'm just a simple scientist who is just trying to correct one's own mistakes, I'm just trying to correct my mistakes and get it right and save lives. I have absolutely no political agenda behind my thinking and my calculations. Calculations in science are the same, regardless of what political party one belongs to. They should be the same. And I think it is a major shame to really turn this into a political battle. There's lives at stake. There's lives of our fellow citizens. There's lives of people who are disadvantaged. There's lives of our relatives. There's lives of everyone; they’re at stake. And I think that it's horrible to turn that into a political battle either in this country or in any other country. We, we should remain united. We are Homo sapiens sapiens. Humans the wise. That's what we should be, you know, not just partisan people who want to elect one president or another or promote the agenda, one political party. We are Homo sapiens sapiens.

Studies posted with video

COVID-19 Antibody Seroprevalence in Santa Clara County, California

Population-level COVID-19 mortality risk for non-elderly individuals overall and for non-elderly individuals without underlying diseases in pandemic epicenters

What Other Countries Can Learn From Italy During the COVID-19 Pandemic