The spring 2020 daily death curves of Bergamo province, New York, and Chicago raise questions about whether the events can be reasonably blamed on sudden spread of the same pathogen
I will add this to your excellent article- it is a very long comment with multiple links for those who wish to explore the vaccine issue re:Italy and how this was also a likely contributor to the degradation of already longstanding health problems in N Italy.
I would caution anyone to attribute any single cause- as it is with "disease" (note the quotatiuon marks) the creation of such things is almost always multi-factorial.
What is an unassailable fact is that the outcomes of what was witnessed in N Italy and NYC in Spring 2020 had zero to do with any unique viral pathogen, imagined or otherwise. And no sorry folks, no lab leak, no targeted aerosolized anything, no viral clones and no sci-fi movie scenarios.
Mass medical homicide, mass fraud and social devasatation wreaked upon the public via a campaign of terror waged against that public by their own governments who were doing the bidding of their masters- the financial oligarchs who run the show.
I will also add that in both NYC and N Italy it was absoutely the case that this "fast-spreading deadly virus" (RFK and many other "leaders of Covid dissent" wrongly argue that this was an actual phenomenon) amazingly steered clear of surrounding areas (suburbs and provinces) and almost exclusively impacted the poor, disabled and already institutionalized in only those specific urban locales.
Not only did this very wily and selective virus only impact specific jurisdictions but it targeted only specific places within those jurisdictions- mainly hospitals.
As well, this mercurial virii came and went like a summer storm- no lead in time and little to no residual impact.
Here's some information on Italy and vaccines in 2019. For those of us who study the history of vaccines and disease (vaccines cause disease- all of them) the patterns are easily recognizable.
In 2018 and 2019 there was an "inexplicable" rise in influenza and pneumonia cases in Lombardy.
Estimated cases of "sindrome simil-influenzale" in Italy between October 14, 2019 and mid-February 2020: 5,632,000. That is almost 10% of Italy's entire population that was supposedly sick with influenza between October, 2019 and February, 2020.
Shortly afterwards, beginning in March, as the number of "coronavirus" cases increased in Italy, the number of influenza cases decreased. I’m sure you can figure out why that happened.
Many elderly Lombards who were vaccinated in November 2019 began getting sick within a few days, as the region began to report very severe, strange pneumonia appearing in people. In Bergamo 185,000 doses of the influenza vaccine were ordered on October 21, 2019.
The 2019-2020 anti-flu and anti-pneumococcus campaign organized by the Health Protection Agency and by the ASST of the province of Bergamo in collaboration with the Family Doctors will start on November 4th.
"The primary objective is the prevention of serious and complicated forms of influenza and the reduction of mortality in groups at increased risk of serious illness - begins the medical director of ATS Bergamo Carlo Alberto Tersalvi - Patients aged 65 or over , and those included in the ADI / ADP programs or who are bedridden / disabled, can contact their doctor for free administration of the vaccine, at the times indicated by the individual doctor. Children and adults under the age of 65, belonging to risk categories, can contact the ASST Vaccination Center of residence, at the locations and times indicated by the Center itself.
“Last year 154,000 doses of flu vaccine were purchased and about 141,000 doses of vaccine were administered, of which about 129,000 to people over 65, with a vaccination coverage of 56.2% – explains Dr. Giancarlo Malchiodi , UOC Director of Community Preventive Medicine, Department of Hygiene and Health Prevention, Bergamo ATS – 185,000 doses of vaccine were ordered this year. The calendars with places and times for vaccinations are being defined by the ASST and will soon be available on the ASST sites themselves ".
The flu vaccination is offered free of charge to the following risk groups:
Individuals aged 65 or older (born in 1954 and earlier);
Children older than 6 months and adults suffering from chronic pathologies, such as:
– chronic diseases of the respiratory system; diseases of the cardio-circulatory system; diabetes mellitus and other metabolic diseases; tumors; chronic liver disease; kidney disease with chronic renal failure;
– pathologies for which major surgical interventions are planned; chronic inflammatory diseases and intestinal malabsorption syndromes; diseases of the hematopoietic organs and hemoglobinopathies; congenital or acquired diseases involving deficient antibody production, drug-induced or HIV-induced immunosuppression;
– neuromuscular diseases associated with increased risk of aspiration of respiratory secretions;
Children and adolescents on long-term treatment with acetylsalicylic acid, at risk of Reye's syndrome in case of influenza infection;
Women who are pregnant at the beginning of the epidemic season;
People living with high-risk individuals;
People hospitalized in health and social-health facilities for long-term patients;
In addition to the Bergamo vaccines, between December 24, 2019 and January 18, 2020, Lombardy also had a free vaccination program for meningitis. Over 34,000 people were given the meningitis vaccine. It’s also worth noting that Italy had been engaged in a mass meningitis fear campaign for a few years which had been highly controversial. All of the small towns where the vaccines were administered were located generally in the same area where the 11 small towns of the first cases of "Coronavirus" were reported, in Lombardy.
Another important fact is that between December 2019 and January 2020, 1.2 million influenza vaccines of a new type were also administered in the Lombardy region.
"The widespread distribution of vaccines through pharmacies and the good adherence of general practitioners are reaping good fruits. The influenza [vaccine] campaign launched by the ATS is in fact already recording record numbers, and is not yet completed. With this new model we have dispensed 1,183,660 vaccines in the entire Lombardy Region."
In one of the first episodes of the Corona Investigative Committee, an Italian doctor was interviewed who claimed in early 2020 colleagues called him, telling him "why are all the old people dying who recently got the flu shot?" This is the link to the video:
This is all MOST welcome and a part of genuine inquiry that leaves doors and possibilities open for exploration and consideration.
As a "mixed methods"/qualitative researcher by training (with a Grounded Theory orientation), I applaud your cautionary note about taking care to not attribute a single factor to complex events.
In retrospect, I recognize that the "case chasing" that so many have engaged in (self included at one point) was part of a larger effort to continue to distract the general populace and experts alike from what was really going on.
The more that people are able to cast aside their preconceptions and professional interests in whatever narrative they have been adhering to, the better off we will all be.
The Overlords biggest fear is that we will figure out exactly what they were up to.
Imagine how easy it would be to hold back deaths -- or keep people alive -- until the "appointed" time.
I greatly appreciate your inquiring mind, you have asked questions that I never even thought of and it has given me a new perspective on the covid insanity that took over our world in 2020. The bad protocols and 'viral deaths' cannot make up the death numbers quoted in these surges in New York and Bergamo, they came on so fast and furious that surely the hospital system would have imploded which I don't think could have been hidden from the public. I found the video helpful, I am a slow learner so I appreciate the visual aid. Thank you!
You’re welcome and thank you for “getting” what I am asking about saying! I could be wrong, of course - and I used to think it was 100% iatrogenic.
It still may be - while also involving moved or double-counted and/or fabricated deaths - but the mechanics of the situation on the ground need to be probed thoroughly
“Silent spread” of a deadly pathogen with no impact on mortality until a signal was given is mythology.
You (Jessica) say that the WHO declared an emergency on March 15, 2020. The statement released by Mr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus on March 2, 2020, started the whole pandemic.
I'm just outside what's considered the Chicago area, and there was a ton of respiratory stuff that hit them city and went all the way up to Wisconsin in the fall of 2019. My oldest daughter got sick with something pneumonia-like in September of 2019, and the rest of the family followed - I was sick for basically all of October, and camee out of it very weak. No one knew what it was though. The local doctors in some places were wanting people coming in with the stuff to wear masks already, and there was at least one school in Chicago that was shut down for a week near Thanksgiving to try to get all the kids well. We were in Germany in early December; lots of stuff going there too, flew back to Chicago on Dec 15, and there were at least 15 people who were coughing and sounding sick... I've flown internationally since 1996, and have never experienced anything like that, even in the days of smoking sections.
One challenge is that death data don't show that flu season was any worse than 2017-2018. There could be a lot of reasons for that.
We live in Chicagoland and were located in inner Cook County at that time. Was there remarkable or very flu-like illness going around at that time? If I take myself back to those months and what we were experiencing and observing around us, I have to say no.
I guess the challenge is, too, using the death data. I know a lot of people were sick then, but I don't know of anyone dying. Baby #5 was born in February of 2020, so there were a lot of appointments for her, and though it's anecdotal, when I told people that I wasn't afraid of Covid and I think I had it back in October of '19, almost every single one would start talking about how everyone seemed to be sick in the November-ish timeframe. The first time I went to urgent care (acute pharyngitis diagnosis), which was at the beginning of October, I was already asked to mask up in the facility because already a couple of their doctors were out with something bad. (I'm up in Racine County, WI, by the way, though my family spent a LOT of time in Chicago proper the summer and fall of 2019.)
No clue, but my family didn't, and we got sick. It also seemed to follow the pattern of Covid, where my 2 and 5 year-olds had about 48 hours of not feeling good, but were able to sleep it off, whereas my 8-year-old was sick for about a week, the first couple days being the worst, and my 9-year-old was sick enough to bring to her pediatrician, who thought it sounded like pneumonia, but not quite. My husband was sick for a solid two weeks, though the first few days were the worst. I was pregnant, and I was actively sick for an entire month, and was diagnosed first with "acute pharyngitis", then pneumonia, for which the urgent care doctor wanted to hospitalize me, and after that, bronchitis from an emergency room visit. I felt incredibly weak most of November. It was all crazy, since I'm somebody who rarely got sick before that. A comment my husband heard from the doctor he went to at the time was that whatever it was, it was really bad, and it was hitting a lot of people who hadn't been sick for years and years. To your question, though, if that's correct, I'd probably assume many of them are the least likely to get a flu vaccine.
OTOH, my MIL had to take the yearly flu vaccines because of where she worked, despite the fact that they made her sick year after year. "Proving" it is nearly impossible. She's 71 now, but her doctor offered her a slot in a study about a year back on seniors who never had Covid. She refused, wanting nothing to do with it, but I bet you she was sick in 2019, when we were spending a lot of weekends with her.
Yes, but they seemed to do almost nothing. I couldn't sleep on a bed the full night because I couldn't breathe well, so I'd come downstairs to the recliner to sit and try to sleep sitting up. I had four kids at home (homeschooling); I had no energy, a very sore throat, and medium-deep coughing that lasted at least a month. The only thing that felt good was when the sun would come through the window to me in the recliner. When I got the second round of antibiotics (with the pneumonia diagnosis - no xray), the doctor prescribed probiotics too, though the pharmacy was kind of goofy about it (what do you need these for? We'll save you money!), and I was too sick to fight. Both with that visit and the ER visit to follow, my oxygen level was below 90. With the ER visit, I went through four rounds of breathing treatments before I was released.
We don't have a number for patients treated with Remdesivir in these cities.
No idea why the Chicago man was treated with Remdesivir, but he wasn't the first patient to receive the drug "for" treatment of the 'novel" coronavirus.
The deaths in NYC were all caused by the care or lack there of. Maybe they filled the paperwork for the deaths at the same time given their total ineptness which allowed the paperwork to back up but as soon as they realized that each Covid-19 was a financial windfall they prioritize getting the paperwork done. Just a theory.
People tend to want to compare the questions you’re asking with the summations they’ve already arrived at themselves. What I find compelling here is how directly the comparison of the three locations deconstructs the supposed govt-media narrative. That’s the really vital bit.
Thanks for keeping your sights steady and focus aimed where it needs to be.
These three places are an apt comparison because what you can say for New York and Chicago, for example, you can't say would be true with Bergamo, etc.
In my half-assed playing with model fitting the usmortality data, I get very different parameters for NYC vs Illinois. It wants something like a 40 day recovery period for IL to fit that slow bump, where the whole pandemic didn’t last that long in NYC. By that its not the same model dynamics to match each place. Implies not same thing.
You got my email in the subs list -- send me a csv and I’ll send back what comes out! In general if the daily data were reporting artifact free it can gat a better picture, but sometimes have no choice to go weekly if there are weekend effects & such embedded.
One could imagine an infectious clone drop in NYC that blends into a coronavirus swarm and dulls virulence as it spreads away. But with testing and care failures could be its all in the noise if there at all.
One need not accept or reject viruses or the existence of something called SARS-CoV-2 to argue that sudden spread of a deadly novel coronavirus did not occur in 2020.
What is the explanation for the differential "impact" of the purported novel deadly pathogen on daily deaths in Bergamo province, New York, and Chicago?
Clearly Bergamo, Chicago and NYC had identical populations at baseline– the same demographics (age, sex, race, etc.), baseline medical issues, household situations, population density, same quality of and access to medical services, same caregivers at home (or lack therof) …
Multigeneration extended family households are similarly common in Bergamo, NYC and Chicago.
Same public health measures – same “lockdown measures,” masking requirements, etc
Same social services availability.
And viruses can't mutate, because they don't exist.
Your analysis is so insightful;
“Bergamo “wins” the prize for highest percent increases in daily deaths, from pre-event average to event peak, at nearly 1,000%. New York had 26K-27K “extra” deaths in their wave, with a shorter rise to peak than Bergamo.“
1000% vs. 27K - because percentages vs. absolute values
“People point to New York’s subways as a vehicle for sudden spread, but Chicago has subways - and buses and trains and a major international airport with daily flights to China – too” - Written very much like someone that’s never ridden the NYC subway, except perhaps as a tourist (to Times Square, of course).
Are you reading all of the graphs, or no? I show % increase and raw numbers for all three locations. The % increase comparison from daily average to peak is 985% for Bergamo and 740% for NYC and 115% for Chicago. Chicago announced a case first, followed by Bergamo, and then New York. If something is fast-spreading and deadly, it makes no sense that
a) daily all-cause deaths in all three places are "stationery" until after mass-testing in hospitals begins, and
b) that Chicago deaths would rise after Bergamo and New York.
The sheer number of bodies in both Bergamo and NYC is implausible in the timeframe.
I do not have place of death data for Bergamo, but I do for NYC and Chicago. The key claim about the total number of hospital deaths in NYC doesn't work, mechanistically, even with iatrogenic factors accounted for. https://www.woodhouse76.com/p/wait-did-this-really-happen-in-new
I've said in other posts and on Twitter that I believe New York's data are fraudulent. I don't have access to similar kinds of data for Bergamo in order to make that assertion.
I live in the Chicago area and have been to New York on business and for pleasure numerous times - and have ridden the subway in both places. In New York, it was most often from the Midtown area AWAY from Times Square, in fact, for work purposes. It's strange that you are making a "no virus" argument and yet offer unstated differences between subway use in New York and Chicago as evidence of I'm-not-sure-what. Bergamo doesn't have a transportation system like New York or Chicago - or a population that relies on such system to get to work, etc every day.
That's a point of comparing these three locations. Many of explanations that people give for New York, for example, should also hold true in Chicago. Explanations for Chicago and New York that don't apply to Bergamo leave "Team Spread" with something to answer for when it comes to population density, subways, etc. as reasons.
You haven't offered an explanation for the chronology and magnitude of these curves, as far as I can tell. You've only said "no virus."
My comment wasn't concise, or well written, but yes, I certainly have offered explanations - but "no virus" - that's just commonly accepted wisdom (here).
The populations were different, almost everything about the settings was different - public health measures differed substantially across locations - and so on ..
And viruses mutate, some more than others, this one rapidly - virulence factor differences will increase over time. You haven't taken into account any of the genomic surveillance data.
"Fraudulent" data? Perhaps, somewhat, with Cuomo in charge. But we know that things as basic as case definitions differed, reporting requirements differed, reporting "compliance" differed, chaos abounded, etc.
You can attribute inconsistencies and discrepancies to fraud (if you've actually found any) - or to the scope and novelty of the situation, and overall sloppiness.
I'm sorry, but I still don't understand what you're saying.
"but 'no virus' - that's just commonly accepted wisdom (here)." I don't know what this means. Then you go on to say "viruses mutate". Are you trolling or...?
Case definitions did not differ in spring 2020, as far as I know. Certainly not between Chicago and New York.
You're saying there was or was not sudden spread of a novel coronavirus (deadly or otherwise)?
There are multiple SIGNALS that the NYC all-cause daily death curve is not an accurate representation of the number and/or places of deaths that actually occurred on each day.
It seems you've shown up to class without having done any homework on my views.
One aspect of the three mentioned "epicenters" could have been that coincidentally these three cities had the earliest orders to start the get go of the psyop and their personnel was the most "motivated" to carry out the orders. Maybe they received the biggest payments. Someone had to start the show. Why not them?
I will add this to your excellent article- it is a very long comment with multiple links for those who wish to explore the vaccine issue re:Italy and how this was also a likely contributor to the degradation of already longstanding health problems in N Italy.
I would caution anyone to attribute any single cause- as it is with "disease" (note the quotatiuon marks) the creation of such things is almost always multi-factorial.
What is an unassailable fact is that the outcomes of what was witnessed in N Italy and NYC in Spring 2020 had zero to do with any unique viral pathogen, imagined or otherwise. And no sorry folks, no lab leak, no targeted aerosolized anything, no viral clones and no sci-fi movie scenarios.
Mass medical homicide, mass fraud and social devasatation wreaked upon the public via a campaign of terror waged against that public by their own governments who were doing the bidding of their masters- the financial oligarchs who run the show.
I will also add that in both NYC and N Italy it was absoutely the case that this "fast-spreading deadly virus" (RFK and many other "leaders of Covid dissent" wrongly argue that this was an actual phenomenon) amazingly steered clear of surrounding areas (suburbs and provinces) and almost exclusively impacted the poor, disabled and already institutionalized in only those specific urban locales.
Not only did this very wily and selective virus only impact specific jurisdictions but it targeted only specific places within those jurisdictions- mainly hospitals.
As well, this mercurial virii came and went like a summer storm- no lead in time and little to no residual impact.
Here's some information on Italy and vaccines in 2019. For those of us who study the history of vaccines and disease (vaccines cause disease- all of them) the patterns are easily recognizable.
In 2018 and 2019 there was an "inexplicable" rise in influenza and pneumonia cases in Lombardy.
https://www.ilgiorno.it/brescia/cronaca/polmonite-1.4339539?fbclid=IwAR07cscCKpvPwKTRbeU4BiaqypJxYwR1i8mQzDBnbaA9j6PNuoue46NWRs0
https://vocedimantova.it/cronaca/influenza-il-picco-sul-picco-boom-di-casi-di-polmonite-ospedale-poma-al-collasso/?fbclid=IwAR0MwoWsJ3gBzO9H1yjVW1z-8lOG87QK3H8fiwue2peGUKXsQtZyOKtmKmY
On February 25, 2020 this article was posted in one of Italy's largest newspapers, La Repubblica.
https://www.repubblica.it/salute/medicina-e-ricerca/2020/02/25/news/_influenza_8_mila_decessi_all_anno_ma_e_sbagliato_paragonarli_al_coronavirus_-249546412/
Estimated cases of "sindrome simil-influenzale" in Italy between October 14, 2019 and mid-February 2020: 5,632,000. That is almost 10% of Italy's entire population that was supposedly sick with influenza between October, 2019 and February, 2020.
Shortly afterwards, beginning in March, as the number of "coronavirus" cases increased in Italy, the number of influenza cases decreased. I’m sure you can figure out why that happened.
Go here:
https://www.epicentro.iss.it/influenza/stagione-in-corso
Many elderly Lombards who were vaccinated in November 2019 began getting sick within a few days, as the region began to report very severe, strange pneumonia appearing in people. In Bergamo 185,000 doses of the influenza vaccine were ordered on October 21, 2019.
The 2019-2020 anti-flu and anti-pneumococcus campaign organized by the Health Protection Agency and by the ASST of the province of Bergamo in collaboration with the Family Doctors will start on November 4th.
"The primary objective is the prevention of serious and complicated forms of influenza and the reduction of mortality in groups at increased risk of serious illness - begins the medical director of ATS Bergamo Carlo Alberto Tersalvi - Patients aged 65 or over , and those included in the ADI / ADP programs or who are bedridden / disabled, can contact their doctor for free administration of the vaccine, at the times indicated by the individual doctor. Children and adults under the age of 65, belonging to risk categories, can contact the ASST Vaccination Center of residence, at the locations and times indicated by the Center itself.
“Last year 154,000 doses of flu vaccine were purchased and about 141,000 doses of vaccine were administered, of which about 129,000 to people over 65, with a vaccination coverage of 56.2% – explains Dr. Giancarlo Malchiodi , UOC Director of Community Preventive Medicine, Department of Hygiene and Health Prevention, Bergamo ATS – 185,000 doses of vaccine were ordered this year. The calendars with places and times for vaccinations are being defined by the ASST and will soon be available on the ASST sites themselves ".
The flu vaccination is offered free of charge to the following risk groups:
Individuals aged 65 or older (born in 1954 and earlier);
Children older than 6 months and adults suffering from chronic pathologies, such as:
– chronic diseases of the respiratory system; diseases of the cardio-circulatory system; diabetes mellitus and other metabolic diseases; tumors; chronic liver disease; kidney disease with chronic renal failure;
– pathologies for which major surgical interventions are planned; chronic inflammatory diseases and intestinal malabsorption syndromes; diseases of the hematopoietic organs and hemoglobinopathies; congenital or acquired diseases involving deficient antibody production, drug-induced or HIV-induced immunosuppression;
– neuromuscular diseases associated with increased risk of aspiration of respiratory secretions;
Children and adolescents on long-term treatment with acetylsalicylic acid, at risk of Reye's syndrome in case of influenza infection;
Women who are pregnant at the beginning of the epidemic season;
People living with high-risk individuals;
People hospitalized in health and social-health facilities for long-term patients;
https://www.bergamonews.it/2019/10/21/vaccinazione-antinfluenzale-a-bergamo-ordinate-185-000-dosi-di-vaccino
In addition to the Bergamo vaccines, between December 24, 2019 and January 18, 2020, Lombardy also had a free vaccination program for meningitis. Over 34,000 people were given the meningitis vaccine. It’s also worth noting that Italy had been engaged in a mass meningitis fear campaign for a few years which had been highly controversial. All of the small towns where the vaccines were administered were located generally in the same area where the 11 small towns of the first cases of "Coronavirus" were reported, in Lombardy.
https://bsnews.it/2020/01/18/meningite-vaccinate-34mila-persone-tra-brescia-e-bergamo/?refresh_ce
https://www.agora-bg.it/meningite-il-bilancio-34000-vaccinazioni-tra-basso-sebino-franciacorta-e-valcalepio/
Another important fact is that between December 2019 and January 2020, 1.2 million influenza vaccines of a new type were also administered in the Lombardy region.
https://www.bresciaoggi.it/territorio-bresciano/brescia/influenza-boom-di-vaccinazioni-1.7834787?refresh_ce
https://www.sanitainformazione.it/salute/lombardia-cresce-il-numero-delle-vaccinazioni-antinfluenzali-70-sinergia-tra-regione-e-federfarma/
"The widespread distribution of vaccines through pharmacies and the good adherence of general practitioners are reaping good fruits. The influenza [vaccine] campaign launched by the ATS is in fact already recording record numbers, and is not yet completed. With this new model we have dispensed 1,183,660 vaccines in the entire Lombardy Region."
https://twitter.com/GIALLO_GIALLO/status/1620850033376763909
In one of the first episodes of the Corona Investigative Committee, an Italian doctor was interviewed who claimed in early 2020 colleagues called him, telling him "why are all the old people dying who recently got the flu shot?" This is the link to the video:
https://ms-elektronik.info/content/26-ausserparlamentarische-corona-ausschuss-eng-untertitel
Thank you, Allen.
This is all MOST welcome and a part of genuine inquiry that leaves doors and possibilities open for exploration and consideration.
As a "mixed methods"/qualitative researcher by training (with a Grounded Theory orientation), I applaud your cautionary note about taking care to not attribute a single factor to complex events.
In retrospect, I recognize that the "case chasing" that so many have engaged in (self included at one point) was part of a larger effort to continue to distract the general populace and experts alike from what was really going on.
The more that people are able to cast aside their preconceptions and professional interests in whatever narrative they have been adhering to, the better off we will all be.
The Overlords biggest fear is that we will figure out exactly what they were up to.
Imagine how easy it would be to hold back deaths -- or keep people alive -- until the "appointed" time.
Very, very easy.
I greatly appreciate your inquiring mind, you have asked questions that I never even thought of and it has given me a new perspective on the covid insanity that took over our world in 2020. The bad protocols and 'viral deaths' cannot make up the death numbers quoted in these surges in New York and Bergamo, they came on so fast and furious that surely the hospital system would have imploded which I don't think could have been hidden from the public. I found the video helpful, I am a slow learner so I appreciate the visual aid. Thank you!
You’re welcome and thank you for “getting” what I am asking about saying! I could be wrong, of course - and I used to think it was 100% iatrogenic.
It still may be - while also involving moved or double-counted and/or fabricated deaths - but the mechanics of the situation on the ground need to be probed thoroughly
“Silent spread” of a deadly pathogen with no impact on mortality until a signal was given is mythology.
You (Jessica) say that the WHO declared an emergency on March 15, 2020. The statement released by Mr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus on March 2, 2020, started the whole pandemic.
See: https://who.int/director-general/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---3-march-2020
Before that, the WHO published several "Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) SITUATION REPORTS," the first on 21 JANUARY 2020. I have PDFs of all of them.
So many lies and obfuscations in that March 3, 2020 statement, it's hard to know where to begin.
I'm just outside what's considered the Chicago area, and there was a ton of respiratory stuff that hit them city and went all the way up to Wisconsin in the fall of 2019. My oldest daughter got sick with something pneumonia-like in September of 2019, and the rest of the family followed - I was sick for basically all of October, and camee out of it very weak. No one knew what it was though. The local doctors in some places were wanting people coming in with the stuff to wear masks already, and there was at least one school in Chicago that was shut down for a week near Thanksgiving to try to get all the kids well. We were in Germany in early December; lots of stuff going there too, flew back to Chicago on Dec 15, and there were at least 15 people who were coughing and sounding sick... I've flown internationally since 1996, and have never experienced anything like that, even in the days of smoking sections.
Thanks.
One challenge is that death data don't show that flu season was any worse than 2017-2018. There could be a lot of reasons for that.
We live in Chicagoland and were located in inner Cook County at that time. Was there remarkable or very flu-like illness going around at that time? If I take myself back to those months and what we were experiencing and observing around us, I have to say no.
That doesn't mean you're wrong, of course.
I guess the challenge is, too, using the death data. I know a lot of people were sick then, but I don't know of anyone dying. Baby #5 was born in February of 2020, so there were a lot of appointments for her, and though it's anecdotal, when I told people that I wasn't afraid of Covid and I think I had it back in October of '19, almost every single one would start talking about how everyone seemed to be sick in the November-ish timeframe. The first time I went to urgent care (acute pharyngitis diagnosis), which was at the beginning of October, I was already asked to mask up in the facility because already a couple of their doctors were out with something bad. (I'm up in Racine County, WI, by the way, though my family spent a LOT of time in Chicago proper the summer and fall of 2019.)
How many of those people took the genetically engineered quadrivalent flu vaccine in Fall/Winter 2019?
No clue, but my family didn't, and we got sick. It also seemed to follow the pattern of Covid, where my 2 and 5 year-olds had about 48 hours of not feeling good, but were able to sleep it off, whereas my 8-year-old was sick for about a week, the first couple days being the worst, and my 9-year-old was sick enough to bring to her pediatrician, who thought it sounded like pneumonia, but not quite. My husband was sick for a solid two weeks, though the first few days were the worst. I was pregnant, and I was actively sick for an entire month, and was diagnosed first with "acute pharyngitis", then pneumonia, for which the urgent care doctor wanted to hospitalize me, and after that, bronchitis from an emergency room visit. I felt incredibly weak most of November. It was all crazy, since I'm somebody who rarely got sick before that. A comment my husband heard from the doctor he went to at the time was that whatever it was, it was really bad, and it was hitting a lot of people who hadn't been sick for years and years. To your question, though, if that's correct, I'd probably assume many of them are the least likely to get a flu vaccine.
OTOH, my MIL had to take the yearly flu vaccines because of where she worked, despite the fact that they made her sick year after year. "Proving" it is nearly impossible. She's 71 now, but her doctor offered her a slot in a study about a year back on seniors who never had Covid. She refused, wanting nothing to do with it, but I bet you she was sick in 2019, when we were spending a lot of weekends with her.
were you treated with antibiotics?
Yes, but they seemed to do almost nothing. I couldn't sleep on a bed the full night because I couldn't breathe well, so I'd come downstairs to the recliner to sit and try to sleep sitting up. I had four kids at home (homeschooling); I had no energy, a very sore throat, and medium-deep coughing that lasted at least a month. The only thing that felt good was when the sun would come through the window to me in the recliner. When I got the second round of antibiotics (with the pneumonia diagnosis - no xray), the doctor prescribed probiotics too, though the pharmacy was kind of goofy about it (what do you need these for? We'll save you money!), and I was too sick to fight. Both with that visit and the ER visit to follow, my oxygen level was below 90. With the ER visit, I went through four rounds of breathing treatments before I was released.
Was it tied to the percent of people with colds treated with Remdesivir? Why was the Chicago patients treated with Remdesivir so early in 2020?
We don't have a number for patients treated with Remdesivir in these cities.
No idea why the Chicago man was treated with Remdesivir, but he wasn't the first patient to receive the drug "for" treatment of the 'novel" coronavirus.
As far as we know, that dubious honor goes to the Snohomish Man. https://x.com/Wood_House76/status/1695274110031396935?s=20
The deaths in NYC were all caused by the care or lack there of. Maybe they filled the paperwork for the deaths at the same time given their total ineptness which allowed the paperwork to back up but as soon as they realized that each Covid-19 was a financial windfall they prioritize getting the paperwork done. Just a theory.
People tend to want to compare the questions you’re asking with the summations they’ve already arrived at themselves. What I find compelling here is how directly the comparison of the three locations deconstructs the supposed govt-media narrative. That’s the really vital bit.
Thanks for keeping your sights steady and focus aimed where it needs to be.
Thank you and I agree.
These three places are an apt comparison because what you can say for New York and Chicago, for example, you can't say would be true with Bergamo, etc.
"Chicago was announced its first COVID-19 case on January 23rd; Bergamo’s was a month later"
This should say "Chicago announced"
Thanks for all your hard work putting these together.
In my half-assed playing with model fitting the usmortality data, I get very different parameters for NYC vs Illinois. It wants something like a 40 day recovery period for IL to fit that slow bump, where the whole pandemic didn’t last that long in NYC. By that its not the same model dynamics to match each place. Implies not same thing.
Daily data are key, as is City-level, but you will doubtless find the same thing
LMK if I can send you the raw data for both NYC and Chicago
You got my email in the subs list -- send me a csv and I’ll send back what comes out! In general if the daily data were reporting artifact free it can gat a better picture, but sometimes have no choice to go weekly if there are weekend effects & such embedded.
One could imagine an infectious clone drop in NYC that blends into a coronavirus swarm and dulls virulence as it spreads away. But with testing and care failures could be its all in the noise if there at all.
This is all cause day of death, final data from city and state entities. No reporting delays apply :)
Maybe depends on how active a hand was needed in the maltreatment...
A "virus" can't spread if it isn't real
One need not accept or reject viruses or the existence of something called SARS-CoV-2 to argue that sudden spread of a deadly novel coronavirus did not occur in 2020.
My explanation is more sensible than yours.
What is the explanation for the differential "impact" of the purported novel deadly pathogen on daily deaths in Bergamo province, New York, and Chicago?
Clearly Bergamo, Chicago and NYC had identical populations at baseline– the same demographics (age, sex, race, etc.), baseline medical issues, household situations, population density, same quality of and access to medical services, same caregivers at home (or lack therof) …
Multigeneration extended family households are similarly common in Bergamo, NYC and Chicago.
Same public health measures – same “lockdown measures,” masking requirements, etc
Same social services availability.
And viruses can't mutate, because they don't exist.
Your analysis is so insightful;
“Bergamo “wins” the prize for highest percent increases in daily deaths, from pre-event average to event peak, at nearly 1,000%. New York had 26K-27K “extra” deaths in their wave, with a shorter rise to peak than Bergamo.“
1000% vs. 27K - because percentages vs. absolute values
“People point to New York’s subways as a vehicle for sudden spread, but Chicago has subways - and buses and trains and a major international airport with daily flights to China – too” - Written very much like someone that’s never ridden the NYC subway, except perhaps as a tourist (to Times Square, of course).
Are you reading all of the graphs, or no? I show % increase and raw numbers for all three locations. The % increase comparison from daily average to peak is 985% for Bergamo and 740% for NYC and 115% for Chicago. Chicago announced a case first, followed by Bergamo, and then New York. If something is fast-spreading and deadly, it makes no sense that
a) daily all-cause deaths in all three places are "stationery" until after mass-testing in hospitals begins, and
b) that Chicago deaths would rise after Bergamo and New York.
The sheer number of bodies in both Bergamo and NYC is implausible in the timeframe.
I do not have place of death data for Bergamo, but I do for NYC and Chicago. The key claim about the total number of hospital deaths in NYC doesn't work, mechanistically, even with iatrogenic factors accounted for. https://www.woodhouse76.com/p/wait-did-this-really-happen-in-new
I've said in other posts and on Twitter that I believe New York's data are fraudulent. I don't have access to similar kinds of data for Bergamo in order to make that assertion.
I live in the Chicago area and have been to New York on business and for pleasure numerous times - and have ridden the subway in both places. In New York, it was most often from the Midtown area AWAY from Times Square, in fact, for work purposes. It's strange that you are making a "no virus" argument and yet offer unstated differences between subway use in New York and Chicago as evidence of I'm-not-sure-what. Bergamo doesn't have a transportation system like New York or Chicago - or a population that relies on such system to get to work, etc every day.
That's a point of comparing these three locations. Many of explanations that people give for New York, for example, should also hold true in Chicago. Explanations for Chicago and New York that don't apply to Bergamo leave "Team Spread" with something to answer for when it comes to population density, subways, etc. as reasons.
You haven't offered an explanation for the chronology and magnitude of these curves, as far as I can tell. You've only said "no virus."
My comment wasn't concise, or well written, but yes, I certainly have offered explanations - but "no virus" - that's just commonly accepted wisdom (here).
The populations were different, almost everything about the settings was different - public health measures differed substantially across locations - and so on ..
And viruses mutate, some more than others, this one rapidly - virulence factor differences will increase over time. You haven't taken into account any of the genomic surveillance data.
"Fraudulent" data? Perhaps, somewhat, with Cuomo in charge. But we know that things as basic as case definitions differed, reporting requirements differed, reporting "compliance" differed, chaos abounded, etc.
You can attribute inconsistencies and discrepancies to fraud (if you've actually found any) - or to the scope and novelty of the situation, and overall sloppiness.
But you're right. It was all sinister.
I'm sorry, but I still don't understand what you're saying.
"but 'no virus' - that's just commonly accepted wisdom (here)." I don't know what this means. Then you go on to say "viruses mutate". Are you trolling or...?
Case definitions did not differ in spring 2020, as far as I know. Certainly not between Chicago and New York.
You're saying there was or was not sudden spread of a novel coronavirus (deadly or otherwise)?
All of my SS on the NYC event are here, as is a statement about my approach https://www.woodhouse76.com/p/new-york-city
You can see my pinned tweet for other summary statements I've made recently. https://x.com/Wood_House76/status/1707072669072417079?s=20
There are multiple SIGNALS that the NYC all-cause daily death curve is not an accurate representation of the number and/or places of deaths that actually occurred on each day.
It seems you've shown up to class without having done any homework on my views.
"SARS and H1N1 appear to be testing phenomena. Even 1918 isn’t a definitive example. (A recent HART Group Substack article summarizes nicely)"
What are you attempting to say there?
Your use of terms like, " ... the purported novel deadly pathogen .. " detract from your credibility.
Viruses aren't real. All "disease" is nutritional perturbation, parasitic overgrowth or radio wave induced - but usually a combination.
They do not detract from my credibility - it is consistent with what I have been saying on Substack and twitter for months.
Please don't try to make my arguments for me, or attempt to co-opt my work for your views.
What I infer you are attempting to do is use what I'm doing for your purposes...which are unclear.
"They do not detract from my credibility - it is consistent with what I have been saying"
-- this is hilarious - why do the kids call it? self-own
Take care :)
One aspect of the three mentioned "epicenters" could have been that coincidentally these three cities had the earliest orders to start the get go of the psyop and their personnel was the most "motivated" to carry out the orders. Maybe they received the biggest payments. Someone had to start the show. Why not them?
None did anything on their own